Mary, the Mother of God

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Re: Mary, the Mother of God

Post  0001 on 9/23/2010, 17:36

It's not really clear what happens to people who sin, yet are saved, I know we do have to pay for all the sins you commit. So I guess I could understand the notion of Purgatory. As to the exact specifications of what will happen, I don't think anyone knows until you, you know, die.

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Re: Mary, the Mother of God

Post  80-0 on 9/29/2010, 19:22

Exactly, no one has defined exactly what it will be like.
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Re: Mary, the Mother of God

Post  0001 on 9/29/2010, 21:09

Yep, because no ones made it through alive. Razz

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Re: Mary, the Mother of God

Post  80-0 on 9/30/2010, 11:47

Wellllll, I would hope that everyone who goes through it comes out clean on the other end. Wink


By the way, on a side note, do all of you who don't think Mary is anything special or significant just dismiss or don't believe or deny such accounts as the apparitions at Fatima, or the miracle at Guadalupe?

Now the miracle at Guadalupe, you can't deny that. The image is there, scientists have yet to explain its longevity or the longevity of the tilma on which it was imprinted, etc.

For those of you who don't know the story:

It took place in the mid-1500s. A 57 year old Indian named Juan Diego was on his way to Mass one morning when he heard the sound of singing birds (it's mid-December). He investigates, and the Blessed Mother appeared to him, and requested that a church be built in her honor. He went to the bishop, Juan Zumarraga, who told him he'd think about it. Later that evening Our Lady appeared again, pressing Diego to return to the bishop. He does, and the bishop asks for proof, some sign of this event, wondering whether it were the devil causing this apparition. The next morning, Diego, who is on his way to find priest to give his dying uncle last rites, is again met with the apparition, and Mary showed him some Castilian roses growing on a hill. Castilian roses, on a hill in Mexico, in winter. She also promises Diego the recovery of his uncle. He puts the roses in his cactus fiber cloak, known as a tilma, and takes them to the bishop. The bishop sees the roses, but more importantly sees an image of Our Lady as she appeared to Juan Diego imprinted on the tilma. And the image has been there ever since, the tilma never decomposing, baffling scientist and atheist alike.

My grade 11 history book, Christ and the Americas, which focuses on America, went into this subject on a page or two.
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Re: Mary, the Mother of God

Post  0001 on 9/30/2010, 15:08

I suppose it's entirely possible. But you must also take into account the bias of the writers documenting the event, it is easy to word things in order to support your own specific views of things. On the other hand, it's possible I suppose that she is similar to Angles in that she could occasionally show up and talk to people.

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Re: Mary, the Mother of God

Post  80-0 on 10/2/2010, 06:24

But the question is, if she's just a powerless person like anyone else in Heaven, why has the tilma not decomposed, and how did the image get there?
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Re: Mary, the Mother of God

Post  0001 on 10/3/2010, 11:38

Well lots of things that are very old don't decompose for a variety of reasons, such as climates, conditions, what it's made out of, etc. I mean we have grass shoes that are thousands of years old that didn't decompose, but they aren't divinely inspired. Also the image could have occurred naturally, such as the images of Mary that show up on toast and waffles and such. But it could be an actual event, I'm not sure.

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Re: Mary, the Mother of God

Post  80-0 on 10/4/2010, 11:12

It definitely didn't occur naturally. How does so much paint of HUNDREDS OF DIFFERENT COLORS appear in one massive, perfect brushstroke on a man's cloak?

It's a colored image that when tested was said to have been "painted" in one stroke. How could something like that happen? Don't say it's a fungi that decided to grow on the tilma and change colors into that exact picture. Razz

Well with the grass shoes it's a coincidence... but can you really say every time the body of a saint does not decompose, or something like this does not decompose, oh it's a coincidence? Neutral
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Re: Mary, the Mother of God

Post  0001 on 10/4/2010, 19:56

I'm not sure, there are freak natural incidents that can cause incidents such as that, but it could be God's hand at work as well its very hard to determine because of all the variables and factors.

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Re: Mary, the Mother of God

Post  80-0 on 10/6/2010, 14:49

Fair enough, I just don't think mother nature has it in her to pull that one. Razz
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Re: Mary, the Mother of God

Post  0001 on 10/6/2010, 15:05

Haha possibly not. Laughing

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Re: Mary, the Mother of God

Post  Sgt Angry Egg on 2/19/2011, 22:00

The fact that this thing has become so famous has probably contributed to its longevity. It's handled more carefully than other objects from that time period.
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Re: Mary, the Mother of God

Post  0001 on 2/22/2011, 17:59

That is very true indeed.

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Re: Mary, the Mother of God

Post  80-0 on 2/26/2011, 06:03

Right, because if it was not so dearly protected, it's almost guaranteed that some nut would try to steal or destroy it.

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Re: Mary, the Mother of God

Post  Sgt Angry Egg on 5/1/2011, 05:33

Maybe. It's crazy what people do sometimes. People have no respect for history.
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Re: Mary, the Mother of God

Post  0001 on 5/1/2011, 16:15

Especially these days it seems.

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Re: Mary, the Mother of God

Post  80-0 on 5/4/2011, 18:31

Sgt Angry Egg wrote:Maybe. It's crazy what people do sometimes. People have no respect for history.

Their hatred for Christianity sadly outweighs their "respect" for history.
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Re: Mary, the Mother of God

Post  0001 on 5/4/2011, 21:52

Very much so.

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Re: Mary, the Mother of God

Post  Sgt Angry Egg on 10/22/2011, 00:01

Sadly, hatred of any religions other than one's own seems to be a common theme throughout history. The pagan roman's hatred of Christians, the Muslims hatred of Buddhism in Iran when they were first spreading through the middle east (yes, the Buddhism used to be pretty big in Iran. The muslims destroyed a lot of the artifacts when they came), some Christians hatred of Muslims or other religions. I was going to make some point here, but I forgot what it was.
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Re: Mary, the Mother of God

Post  0001 on 10/22/2011, 11:00

I think the point you were trying to make was that as Christians we should tolerate other's views and beliefs, but that doesn't mean we have to agree with it. Wink

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Re: Mary, the Mother of God

Post  80-0 on 10/27/2011, 12:26

And it certainly doesn't mean we can't try and convince them that our point of view is the true one. Smile
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Re: Mary, the Mother of God

Post  0001 on 10/27/2011, 12:56

Very true indeed. Smile

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