The Baptism Topic

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The Baptism Topic

Post  80-0 on 12/21/2010, 06:26

JediJoe: "Baptism is only important if you think it is important"

So basically you're saying it's a "spiritual help" if you will that God gave to us that is completely voluntary and not necessary to attain salvation? If so why was Jesus baptized?

The thing is, and I know you guys might not understand it, I believe Jesus was creating a Church when he was baptized. He believed that he needed to show the way to the rest of the world by having HIMSELF of all people be baptized. He was after all a man, albeit God Incarnate.

So it wasn't just because Jesus thought "hey, baptism is cool", it was because he was creating a Church at that time which would include anyone willing to believe his truths and submit themselves to baptism.
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Re: The Baptism Topic

Post  0001 on 12/22/2010, 10:02

True, when you are Baptized it is the modern sign of God's Covenant with Him. Once you become Baptized you are officially a Christian and forgiven in the truest sense. That's why Jesus and the Bible have such an emphasis on it, because that is how we become Christians essentially.

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Re: The Baptism Topic

Post  0027 on 12/22/2010, 12:35

I disagree. We become Christians through our faith and most of all GRACE.
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Re: The Baptism Topic

Post  0001 on 12/23/2010, 17:16

True, but you have to enter the Covenant for it to be legit, and Baptism is how you do that.

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Re: The Baptism Topic

Post  Jedi Joe on 12/23/2010, 21:58

So your whole fate relies on being dunked in a tub of water?

I can understand it being a good sign to show a church you have been saved, but I somehow doubt that signs and symbolism help you get into Heaven.

I agree with Fellblade, grace and peace is a true virtue that a Christian should desire.
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Re: The Baptism Topic

Post  80-0 on 12/24/2010, 08:52

If the symbolism is so gosh darn meaningless, why did Jesus put himself through it? If you feel you are somehow lowering yourself to have to get "dunked in a tub of water", think about Jesus. He allowed a HUMAN to baptize him.

I will say this, though: Malus was right to bring up grace. However, I think there needs to be some context as to the reality of grace vs. sin. Grace is indeed important. But grace is what you accumulate AFTER baptism. I happen to believe in Original Sin. I don’t know if you guys do. It is, in essence, the sin of Adam and Eve, which, having caused the Fall of Man (remember, we are fallen creatures and we need everything we can get from God) and brought evil itself into our hearts and minds, is on the soul of every human being in existence. Baptism, quite simply, removes it (and any other sins you may have committed, if you’re old enough). So the question is, can you have grace on your soul if you have sin on your soul? I don’t think the answer is yes. You see, it may make you feel good to say “I have faith that if I do good deeds God will take me up into Heaven”, while at the same time completely ignore the traditions and rites that have been used and, to be perfectly honest, have helped hundreds of millions of people attain holiness, and remained unchanged over the centuries. I think you’re missing out on a lot if you think Baptism and such is merely symbolic and has no spiritual value, I really do.

To answer your question Joe, no, your whole fate does not depend on Baptism. It depends on what you do AFTER Baptism.
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Re: The Baptism Topic

Post  0001 on 12/27/2010, 19:00

Indeed, I essentially agree with 80-0, he is correct in that statement.

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Re: The Baptism Topic

Post  Cpt. Crinkle on 2/11/2011, 13:16

The reason for Baptism.
B=Buriel-dying being buried.
A=Appearal-take off old clothes, put on new.
P=Pattern-follow Jesus (Jesus was baptized by John the Baptist.)
T=Time-now
I=Immersion-placed fully underwater.
S=Subjects-everyone-understood.
M=Member-member of the body of Christ.
This was a way my theology professor represented Baptism.

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Re: The Baptism Topic

Post  0001 on 2/14/2011, 23:27

That is awesome! Great way to think about it.

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Re: The Baptism Topic

Post  80-0 on 2/15/2011, 07:48

That is a nice breakdown of Baptism. Kudos to your professor. Smile
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Re: The Baptism Topic

Post  Sgt Angry Egg on 2/17/2011, 14:10

I have nothing to contribute to this discussion. I'm just posting in all the threads I can to punish you all for never being on.
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Re: The Baptism Topic

Post  80-0 on 2/19/2011, 18:51

Razz
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Re: The Baptism Topic

Post  0001 on 2/22/2011, 18:05

Hey, I'm just glad you're back Egg, we miss you at the meetings these days.

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Re: The Baptism Topic

Post  Sgt Angry Egg on 5/1/2011, 05:35

Sad I'm sorry. Maybe someday. No time soon, though. I haven't slept more than 3 hours at a time for the past 2 weeks because of %^%(*^ing school. NEVER take calculus and linear algebra at the same time.

Oh heck, I guess I should say something about baptism, too. My problem with things like this is I get distracted by thinking about the bigger picture, and then the bigger picture of that picture, and so on. So, I would say that baptism is a symbolic representation of your faith, not necessary for membership in a religion or faith, but then I would think "what is faith? does it consist of a series of rituals, such as bathing and circumcision and sacrificing your fattest goat at noon on the solstice? Or are these just symbols that people have used to represent a deeper, ineffable truth common to all, or most creeds?"

"Food for thought, I think" he thought to himself, thoughtfully.
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Re: The Baptism Topic

Post  0001 on 5/1/2011, 16:14

Hmmm that is interesting, although for me the important aspects of our faith are laid out in the Bible. I mean if baptism wasn't important, why would Jesus, the very living son of God, have bothered to be baptized?

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Re: The Baptism Topic

Post  Sgt Angry Egg on 10/22/2011, 00:23

Just because baptism is purely a symbol doesn't mean it's unimportant. Symbols are useful for representing and identifying with some cause, but usually are not essential to be a member/sympathizer with said cause.

Let's take the flag for example. It's a symbol. It serves as a banner for our countrymen to rally around, but do you *have* to have an american flag to be an american? no, you're still american if you have no american flag.

In the same way, I think, baptism is important - as a symbol. It's a symbol of your covenant with God, but it is not necessary to have said symbol in order to have said covenant. Being baptized makes one go public with one's faith, so you begin to identify as "I am a baptized person", and yes, this helps strengthen that faith, but I don't think you'll go to hell if you live like a christian your whole life but don't get baptized.
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Re: The Baptism Topic

Post  0001 on 10/22/2011, 10:44

I partially agree with you. In the Bible it says that baptism is essential to the faith because it seals your pact with God. That's why Jesus did it. To us it may only be a symbol, but to God it means that we are now a part of his way of doing things. I mean if you look in the Bible, baptism is one of the most essential parts of being Christian.

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Re: The Baptism Topic

Post  80-0 on 10/25/2011, 08:42

I think it's wrong to take Baptism for granted. We should all strive to imitate Christ, and this the least of things that He did, we too should do. God has taught us many lessons using signs throughout history, and I think signs like Baptism are an important way to reinforce our Christian identity. For example:

Option 1:
Hey, what’s going on?
I’m going to a Baptism.
What’s that?
It’s a rite of entrance into Christ’s Universal Church.
Really?”

Option 2: Hey, what’s going on?
I’m going to a Baptism.
What’s that?
It’s just a guy pouring water on a baby’s head; it has no great meaning or significance.
Oh, whatever.”
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Re: The Baptism Topic

Post  0001 on 10/25/2011, 10:16

Hahaha yes very good point 80-0, and I agree. Razz

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